Talk:Knights of the Watch
Date and origin of the KotW
There is a minor typo in the second paragraph of the History section. The Gran March was founded in -161 CY, not 161 CY. This date is given in the LGG in the Keoland entry.
There is an "issue" with the history given as the material in the LGG is contradictory.
In the Keoland entry, it says the Duchy of Dorlin awarded the Gran March to the Knights of the Watch when it was created.
In the Gran March entry, it says the Knights of the March were the original order that conquered and settled the place, and that Tavish the Great created the Knights of the Watch "on the basis of" the Knights of the March circa 300 during the expansion into what became Bissel.
This affects which group the Knights of the Malgari, aka the Darkwatch, separated from. This existence of the Knights of the March is not reconciled in the Living Greyhawk article on the Knights of the Watch, which simply deletes that organization, and suggests a political motive for Tavish putting the Darkwatch under the control of House Neheli.
Working on citing sources
The date typo was fixed way back when (2022).
I'm going back through a lot of content, citing contemporary sources, and reonciling them with previous ones. I never had a reason for the research before, and this fell to the waaaaaay back burner. I'll see if I can cite the sources, and the note differences between them, so that all information is presented, and the DM can decide what to do with it.
But, just a little note on the sources:
- LGG Keoland only says that Gran March was founded in -161, and then says the KotW were given it to defend by the Duke of Dorlin. [1]
- LGG Gran March (as mentioned) does refer to the Knights of the March pre-existing the KotW, and refers to the KotW not coming along 'til later than -161 "in the early 300s". But is also says the Order still had the same leaders, in addition to being "built on the basis of."[2] This seems to mean it's not a new organization, just a reorganized one.
- The Knights of the Watch web article isn't actually an LG article, but, it definitely also mentions the Knights of the March.[3] But, it further expounds that the "adopted the teachings" and "took a new name for their order," again indicating they simply reorganized and maintained continuity.
- ↑ Living Greyhawk Gazetteer (2000), p.65.
- ↑ Living Greyhawk Gazetteer (2000), p.50.
- ↑ Conforti, Stephen. Knights of the Watch (Part 1). [Wizards.com | Power Groups. WotC, May 13, 2005. Archived from the original on March 14, 2006. Retrieved on 17 February 2025.
Honestly, now I realize the problem, really ... this entire fucking page is just quoted text (uncited) from the KotW web article! JFC 🤦♀️🙄
I, personally, would most likely presume that the author simpy referred to the group by it's later name, rather than KotM; much as one might refer to the Knights of Malta being formed in the 11th century, even though they were originally Knights of St. John, and didn't change thier name 'til later. Because it clearly lines up with the LGG in most regards, including the KotW being founded "several centuries ago on the foundation of an earlier organization based in Gran March, " before 591 CY. All the web-article does is name the group. If the KotM and KotW aren't considered the same group, then the LGG saying it was "several centuries ago" at the same time as "early 300s" would be inaccurate.
But, seeming incongruity is there. So, I've included citations for now, and we'll have to include a note about it being referred to variously. ... and summarize the article down shorter. —Abra Saghast (talk) 17:32, 17 February 2025 (EST)